Smartlead office hours: Introducing the Outbound Maturity Curve

In this Smartlead Office Hours session, Harris Kenny (Founder of OutboundSync) breaks down the Outbound Maturity Curve—a framework that helps teams and agencies move from disorganized outreach to a fully optimized revenue engine.

Whether you’re just getting started or ready to scale with systems like Smartlead, Clay, and HubSpot, this talk is packed with strategic guidance, real-world tips, and live Q&A.

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Transcript

0:00:09 There we go. Hi, hello, hola, beautiful people. How are we doing today? More coming in, more coming in. There. Sorry if I'm about 70 already.
0:00:26 Hi, Gerardo. How are you, sir? How are you doing for the day? Perfect. You all know the drill. Drop on the comments where you're from, what's the temperature at your place and we'd love to know.
0:00:44 Post which something that's welcome loves to know is, let us know if you're an agency, a SaaS company or an SMB.
0:00:52 Please, drop it on the comments, let it fire up. Madrid 15 make Mexico 70 degrees. Uh, that's kind of cool compared to where we are from.
0:01:02 Vienna 13. Beautiful. Charles, I think we've prepared somewhere close. Uh, India, somewhere close to 30. Uh, right now it's probably 27.
0:01:12 80. Ah, that's kind of odd. India, 22. The rich. Which part of India are you from it? 25 beautiful weather there.
0:01:24 Awesome. But thank you so much people. Thank you so much for taking the time today. Today, we have Harris Kenny.
0:01:33 Harris is The founder of OutboundSync, right? And if I have to give you an understanding of all OutboundSync, OutboundSync basically helps you integrate your sales automation platforms, your marketing tools, everything all onto one place, right?
0:01:48 So beat your deals, your suppression list, your reports. You can basically have it all single one space dedicated for that.
0:01:55 But Harris, I'll pass on the mic to you. If you can give us a quick round of introduction along with the brief of what our OutboundSync does, we'd love to know that.
0:02:03 Absolutely. So hi, everyone. This is my second time on Smart Lead Office Hours. And I just want to apologize. I was just at a conference for the last couple days.
0:02:11 And so my voice is a little tired, but I feel totally fine. And, um, we're really excited to be back and really excited to see all the participants here.
0:02:19 We've got a bunch of people and we've got a lot of good stuff coming in the chat. Um, so I'm gonna give, uh, a little bit more background on myself as we go, as we go here.
0:02:28 I'm better trying to say hello and say very open to Q&A as we go through about this. Um, I used to run a smart lead agency, uh, smart lead partner agency, and we were also Clay experts and then while doing that, we identified a need to build up basically a product, integrating smart lead with other systems
0:02:47 of record. And that's how app on sync was born and I'll talk about that in a little bit. So now we're kind of more of, uh, an app partner.
0:02:53 I guess you could say for smart lead. But we're still really active in the smartlead community and really excited. We are users ourselves of smartly.
0:03:01 So excited to talk about that and talk about how to say we're going to talk about unlocking, um, outbound and then leveraging other systems because landing in the inbox is kind of just the beginning.
0:03:10 So really excited to cover all of that. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Harris. What we're also interested is basically the outbound maturity curve, right?
0:03:18 Everything is a part of it, but we really love that. So people, uh, what Harris has is something called the outbound maturity curve.
0:03:25 A framework that guides businesses from reactive, unstructured to a fully optimized data driven engine, right? And he's going to cover bits and pieces of it from where you start multiple aspects involved on it.
0:03:37 So without further ado, let's get started. Awesome. Okay. Awesome. That sounds great. Let me see if I can share my screen here and make sure everything is working.
0:03:47 Uh, one second. Absolutely. And I'll take the time for that. I'll take a moment here. It uses . Okay, perfect. Okay, um, Akash, can you just see my screen?
0:04:14 Okay. Absolutely. Okay, great. I feel like things, uh, things never work, so I'm glad, I'm glad things are working here.
0:04:21 Okay, so, um, let's, I just want to talk about the outbound maturity curve. So Akash did a great job team this up and he said it in basically in 20 seconds what I'm going to spend, what we're going to spend the next hour talking about.
0:04:32 Um, the idea is that basically when you're doing outbound, there's a whole set of things that go along with it.
0:04:44 And so we talk a lot, obviously, when we're using smartly, we talk a lot about landing in the inbox, talk about email accounts and warm up volumes.
0:04:52 And we talk about copy and lists. But there's a lot of things to go around in this. So there's eight buckets that we're going to talk through around your people, your process, your messaging, data, metrics, and what you're measuring.
0:05:05 And then I break out CRM kind of as as a system of record and then finally automation around that. So we're going to talk through all of that and how to how to have outbound be a strategic and proactive part of your organization and that includes using multiple channels and having it being something 
0:05:20 that can help your company really get ahead and not just a way of thinking about trying to get whatever a couple more meetings day or a week or a month.
0:05:28 Um, obviously we want to do that. Um, but what we're finding and, you know, just kind of big picture. Is that this movement, this scaled outbound movement, is going mainstream.
0:05:41 And if you're here right now on this call, you are an early adopter, and you are part of a group of people that are pushing this way of thinking about growth forward.
0:05:57 Very large organizations are watching what Smartlead users are doing and how smartlead users are thinking about growth and they're asking themselves internally.
0:06:09 How do we do that? Companies with thousands of employees, you know, really large organizations are seeing how effective communities like this are being in growing their business.
0:06:24 So I'm really excited to be here and just to kind of share that because Because we sit on the CRM side and so we a lot of times we talk to those organizations because they have security and data and a lot of requirements that we help them meet.
0:06:36 Um, and that's not for everybody and our practice and for everybody and that's okay. I still think there's lessons from what I'm seeing up market that I think I think everyone here will find interesting.
0:06:46 And I think that sometimes we get, we really can we zoom in so much and we think about how many emails that I send this week or, you know, Uh, you know, how do I make sure I get back to my interest that replies really quickly?
0:06:57 So I just want to take today to try to zoom out a little bit and try to provide a little perspective on what we're seeing because what I think is happening is pretty incredible.
0:07:07 I mean, a few years ago, when you talked about these topics with people, they would say we don't have an email deliverability problem.
0:07:15 What are you talking about? Yeah, we send a few thousand emails a day from our sales reps main account from our main domain, the same domain that we use for our billing and what's the problem with that?
0:07:28 And, uh, and now everyone knows that's not the case. Um, but then they're asking like, well, what do we do about it?
0:07:36 Um, so really, really excited to have this conversation. Uh, and those are just kind of like teeing this off. So, um, let me, I want to make sure I can see the comments here.
0:07:43 So just give me a second. To make sure I can see the comments from my screen. I'm just going to change my window really quickly here.
0:07:52 Okay. Okay, great. Um, and so, uh, the structure, uh, thanks, Gerardo. Yeah, I mean, I'm just, I'm just calling it like it is.
0:07:59 Uh, I'm just calling it like I see it. Gerardo got hyped up about the speech, and I mean, that's just what I'm seeing, you know, I mean, that's just, that's just reality.
0:08:06 I think that what's happening right now, this conversation, there are going to be people that are going to be watching this that are in two years.
0:08:13 Or gonna be trying to catch up where people who are here are right now. That's, I mean, I'm just, that's, I mean, you know, of course, you know, I mean, you talk to smart leadusers.
0:08:21 I mean, this is just, that's just the way it is. You know, I mean, I want everybody to feel good.
0:08:25 I'm happy to hype people up, but also I'm really, really, from my heart, I believe that that's reality. What we're at right now.
0:08:30 So it's really exciting time. You know, really exciting time. Um, okay, so, uh, I've got the chat here, feel free to throw stuff in there.
0:08:38 I'm gonna try to keep an eye on it. Um, but with that, Let's, let's just kind of get into it a little bit here.
0:08:44 Um, so background on me, uh, for today, I'm going to talk about how we got here a little bit of my personal background in a little more detail.
0:08:50 We're going to talk about the upbound maturity curve itself. Talk about why you want to get this in your CRM, but really, it would be why would you want this in a system of record in general?
0:08:59 What, what other data is relevant, um, that would, that would interact with or intersect with what we're doing and what we're doing smartly in an outbound.
0:09:08 And then, and then lots of QA day. We'll have a dedicated Q&A in the end, and we'll do a spotlight.
0:09:13 You can get on camera and share some specific stuff too. Okay, so I've mentioned this before, but I'll just go a little bit more personal here.
0:09:20 So I started working for myself in 2019, doing fractional sales work. Um, I actually worked in the hardware industry for a number of years.
0:09:28 So I was helping with a number of hardware companies with, uh, their go-to market. And I noticed that very few of them had CRMs, so I became a hotspot partner.
0:09:37 And so they wanted two things, they wanted to fix your sales process, and they wanted new leads. And so we fixed the sales process by working with TubSpot and becoming a HubSpot partner, and then we helped them get new leads by doing that bound.
0:09:51 And we had used a number of other tools, um, but a little over two years ago, uh, smart lead was created.
0:09:58 And we moved our upbound to smart lead. Totally changed our business. Uh, totally changed my business. Um, and so we've been doing scaled up out and with Smartlead for a long time.
0:10:08 I was also one of the first clay experts. There's a really early user of clay huge, huge fan of the platform.
0:10:13 Um, if you're using clay, um, you know, maybe drop something in the comments about what's your favorite thing to do in clay and what your favorite enrichment is.
0:10:21 I saw a really good post about people using clay. I think probably my favorite enrichment right now that I've been using the most lately, uh, or the favorite feature in clay that I'm using lately.
0:10:30 It's goofy, but I use that little formula generator, so you can kind of create your own custom reg ex. That's, that's kind of my, I keep coming back to it when I need help.
0:10:40 I mean, I should just, at this point, I've spent so much time using AI, writing red jacks. I should just learn how to write regular expressions, but I use that probably all the time.
0:10:49 Charles is a huge form of a fan. So yeah, formula is probably my top, top enrichment that I use. I know that's not, probably not a cool answer, but that's, that's, that's, that's how, that's what I use the most.
0:10:58 Um, And, uh, I shut down my agency full of time. So, so I was running the agency and connecting tools between HubSpot and SmartLead.
0:11:05 And then we had, we had people asking, hey, you know, we also use HubSpot and SmartLead, but we don't want your help.
0:11:11 We have another agency, or we're doing it ourselves. Um, we just want this little app that you built. And that came up enough that I decided to go all the way in and becoming basically, to become a SmartLead app partner and HubSpot app partner.
0:11:22 Um, and, um, so I went all in on that, um, grew the team. Um, we've got We also integrate with Salesforce now and we've grown the product quite a bit.
0:11:31 Um, but so that's that's what I do full-time. Um, we work with over 30 different agencies. I think we work with some of the best, uh, smartlead agencies as partners, but I know there are more that we're not working with and we hope to work with you one day.
0:11:43 And I'm a really big believer in the agency model and I'm a big believer in if you're an in-house person, you know, your skill set is incredibly valuable.
0:11:51 I've watched companies try to stand up this motion on their own. It is not, not easy. Now, I'm going to skip ahead here.
0:12:00 I've got a couple little slides, but I'm going to jump ahead, uh, because I think we covered it. And I'm just going to jump right into the outbound maturity curve.
0:12:08 So, this is a model that I've developed because I've noticed during our discovery calls and conversations with users, kind of where people land in the upbound process.
0:12:18 And so, basically, if you're using smartlead, you're going to be jumping ahead up to almost the level four, almost immediately assuming you've got other parts of your sales engine running.
0:12:27 Because it's going to get you ahead in a lot of ways, uh, in terms of having an advanced tech stack, they're going to allow you to monitor performance that matters, which is like landing in the inbox, right?
0:12:36 I mean, if you're doing a outbound, and you're landing in spam, you're not doing anything, really, right? You're just, I don't know, you're just keeping the spam filters busy.
0:12:46 Um, so I just want to introduce this really quick, and then we'll go through the specific stages. So a level one.
0:12:55 We've got these, these little animals here, level one in the turtle. Uh, it means that the organization is not doing outbound at all.
0:13:02 And nobody's owning it. Maybe everyone's in a while. You've got a sales rep sending an email. You know, here or there or a founder will send an email.
0:13:09 They see something interesting on LinkedIn. They, they reach out. And typically what we've seen is that to going into an active outbound motion is where a company would look at maybe using a sequencer that's maybe built within a CRM that they're using.
0:13:24 Like a HubSpot or a Close or something else. Um, it's not really optimized for deliverability, but it gives them the ability to send cadences.
0:13:31 Maybe they're even using something within Gmail, um, that allows them to do like mail merge within Gmail or sequences within Gmail.
0:13:37 Um, but it's simple. Not really tracking things all the time. These organizations, maybe they're still thinking a lot about open rates, you know, um, and just kind of some basic metrics around that.
0:13:49 Where, you know, as we scale and we take advantage of some of the powerful features built into smartly, we actually, you know, we see more advanced teams actually disabling open rates most of the time, disabling link, link click tracking most of the time to get those simple HTML emails.
0:14:02 So emails that are, you literally can't send with many platforms. They don't give you the ability to send emails like that.
0:14:09 With many platforms. And so that's why, you know, it smartlead allows you to move up the curve and do things that you just can't do with some other tools, um, which you might take for granted.
0:14:16 If you've just used smartlead it only for sequencing, you've never used other tools before. You may not realize there's, um, you know, one little checkbox that you might think it's just a setting, um, it's actually a pretty interesting feature that doesn't exist in many tools in the market.
0:14:30 So we'll talk about that in a second. Um, and then, and then we start getting into the process piece. So when you're running more consistent campaigns and you're consistently shipping campaigns, consistently getting things out the door, that's where we see organizations are, that's maybe where they start
0:14:46 to realize that they have a, maybe a little bit of a problem. When you're running consistent campaigns, that's when you start to see, Hey, I'm getting, um, I sent out like a thousand emails, but I didn't really get any replies.
0:14:57 What's going on? And I don't want to sit this wrong way. Uh, Tell me a- a- a- a a- a- a- a- a- a- a- a- a- a- a- a- a- a- a-- a- a- a- a- a-- a- a- a- a- a a- a- a- a- a- a True.
0:15:30 I've got to go deeper and I've got to get better data. I've got to get like categorizing these replies. What kind reply is, right?
0:15:36 And that's where smartlead is. AI categorization is really powerful and you can even have your custom categories built into that.
0:15:42 But that's where you start to go drill down deeper and say, okay, and that's where we supposed to move up, move up to a more advanced platform.
0:15:48 You know, that's, you know, if you're running a smartly, you're without too much effort, you can get to that level four in my opinion, where you can just be looking at more important data.
0:15:56 And then we'll talk about that and then level five is Where you have feedback loops. You're using multiple channels. You're using multiple data providers, uh, and you're really kind of going, you know, if you, if you're familiar with Eric Nowoslawski's work, you know, the kind of stuff that Eric talks
0:16:10 about in his loom videos. So we're going to talk about that in greater detail here. So before we go forward, I just want to stop.
0:16:16 I just want to give everyone a chance if you have any questions, um, drop, chop something in the chat and we can talk through this because this is going to tee up the next, um, probably 10 minutes of conversation here, going into these specific levels and then you can think about maybe where your organization
0:16:28 is at. And what do we take to get to the next level? So if there's any questions, feel free to drop in the chat.
0:16:33 I'm going to take a sip of water here. Um, I see Eunice has a good smart lead question. I'm going to let smart lead answer that.
0:16:38 Um, and all right, give me a sack. I'm just going to have some water and drop some questions in the chat if you got them.
0:16:44 In the meantime, for Eunice, I'm dropping a message for you, but you go to your campaign settings, you scroll a bit down and you'll find your AI lead categorization.
0:16:52 So that's available for every plan. Additional information, be by default, use GPT for how many for That if you're a GPT4 user, you can connect to a GPT4 to create even custom lead categories if you want to.
0:17:05 So yeah. For people in the meantime, if you have any questions for Harris, drop us on the chat, drop it on the chat, we'll pick it up and we'll get those answered.
0:17:14 All right. Roshab has a good one in there about receiving a response. It's just a comment you can add a tag in these got those categories or a great call.
0:17:22 Roshab, absolutely. All right. So let's jump in here, have my water, feeling good. Alright. So we covered this. This is basically, you know, you're basically not doing outbound, right?
0:17:35 It's not a time to talk about here. I think the biggest thing I want to emphasize is that if your organization is in this level, you're at risk.
0:17:46 Companies that are not doing any outbound, at all, are at risk of disruption and losing pipeline. So if you're relying on Google Search, Are you relying on, uh, social media channel?
0:18:01 And there's some disruption for whatever reason, algorithms change, or platforms get banned, or, you know, your account gets locked, or who knows, right?
0:18:09 Or you're just relying on maybe one employee's personal network. Or you're relying on trade shows, unless you say hypothetically, there's a global situation where trade shows stop happening for a little while, right?
0:18:20 I'm sure everyone remembers a few years ago when that happened. If you have all your eggs in one basket and you don't have a proactive way to go out and generate leads, it's probably fine until it's not.
0:18:31 And so, you know, what we find is that at some point organizations say, look, we don't want to be reactive like this and we want to have the ability to be proactive, go one offense, go find opportunities for organization and not be stuck.
0:18:43 And that is, I think, the most important mindset to adopt. What we bring on out of Ben, what we're saying is, we want to be able to, you know, be a live player.
0:18:52 Right? To borrow, to borrow a phrase, like don't be an NPC, right? You don't want to be an NPC when it comes to growth of your organization.
0:19:00 You want to be a live player. You want to be able to go out and influence pipeline and make stuff happen.
0:19:05 Um, thanks for joining us. Shalom really appreciate you. All right, um, let's go to the next one here. So let's talk about active.
0:19:18 This is where we're getting started. We've decided. That we want to be at least able to exert some influence over our ability to go our organization.
0:19:27 And we've gotten an emerging process, um, reusing basic tools, maybe general list polls. Now, for organizations that are just getting started on this level two, starting to be a little more proactive.
0:19:39 A lot of times, this is found or led. But many organizations will bring in an entry level SDR and they will have them function in this way too.
0:19:46 And I think that's what's good about this is that you're getting started. Getting something out at the door, learning is good.
0:19:53 Um, the risk, I think, for organizations at this stage is they push the volume too high. And this is where you run into the situation where you can have potentially, uh, risk and domain health.
0:20:04 Um, so I think with active basic testing, basic sequencing, basic lists, you know, you're going to have higher bounce rates, you're going to be probably doing some, some segmentation is going to be off and that's okay, as long as you keep a lid on your volume.
0:20:16 It's when companies let the volume drift up. And so to give you some specific examples, you know, if we're talking about sending hundreds of emails a day, from generic lists, from our main domain, that's when we're going to start having a problem.
0:20:31 So it's nothing wrong with being in this stage of an outbound process, but you have to remember that if, you know, you can jeopardize the health of your domain, and that's your organization's ability to communicate with the world, you have to be careful about letting this volume go up too high.
0:20:48 Because, you know, things like bounce rates matter a lot. And if you're bouncing a lot, um, it's going to create issues for your domain, you know.
0:20:56 Um, all right, let's go to the next slide here and talk about being consistent. So this is now where we have a consistent process.
0:21:08 We've got to standardize and document the process. I think especially this is where we see a couple of these tend to have a dedicated contractor or full-time hire, and their job is, listen, I want you to get fresh campaigns out on a regular basis.
0:21:26 You're thinking about a little bit more. And you're moving beyond some of the basic metrics and you're starting to focus, um, like, um, like, Rashab was mentioning earlier, you're starting to focus on replies and reply rates and positive reply rates.
0:21:38 You're starting to think about that. Um, and if you bring in an agency, if you bring in, if you go to smart lead, dot AI, and if you look at some of the certified partners and experts there, they can get you just basically immediately.
0:21:50 The minute you start working with them, they can get you consistently shipping. And I just want to emphasize that, like, it is not easy to consistently ship decent copy to decently targeted lists.
0:22:01 It is not easy. It requires really commitment. And it doesn't matter if you're using the best tools in the world.
0:22:10 If you're not being consistent, you're not going to be able to get results. Uh, I really like this quote here because it, it's from, um, sorry, jumped ahead by accident.
0:22:20 But it just talks about how you have to standardize the process and you have to measure it, measure that process.
0:22:25 Alright, so I see some really good things coming in the comments and I see some great people jumping in here.
0:22:31 Let me just jump. Let me just look at this. Um, we've got, okay, I want to go on an offense.
0:22:38 I have smartlead my biggest problem is getting a lead list to send to. Yeah, and so this is like, this is where we talk about like this challenge of getting to the consistent, right?
0:22:44 So you can be active and you're thinking about it, but then you jump up to that consistent. This is exactly what we're talking about.
0:22:48 Hey, how do I get that lead list? Can anyone recommend it? And so I, I love what Max is doing here.
0:22:52 I mean, I'm going to, I'm going I'm going I'm going to, I'm going to just, I just want to spot like this because this is like exactly what we're talking about.
0:22:58 You're saying, okay, oh, I want it to be on offense. I want to be proactive. I'm going to start sending these things, but I'm having a hard time doing it regularly.
0:23:03 Like this is it. And, and it, you know, it might. Don't don't underestimate that how hard this is which Jamie's or maybe it's Jaime what Jamie's mentioning here, um So max is right depending on your list.
0:23:18 You know, you can pull from providers like Apollo a leads list kit d7 leaf finder local, um, and you can check out clay Smartly does have native integration with clay.
0:23:28 So I would say you've got like a two two tier problem here potentially Um, one is that you need a list, and then if you're getting a list that's a little bit more, uh, like raw and unsegmented, then you're going to need to segment that list to get, to get it put in the right buckets.
0:23:42 And that's where a tool like a clay can be really helpful. Um, so yeah, consider if, I mean, one of the first things to think about is, are my customers going to be on a tool like LinkedIn or not?
0:23:53 Are they going to be into some of these structured B2B databases that like an Apollo or a list kid? Would find where they'd be listed there and if so, there's some great providers that can do that.
0:24:02 Seemless.ai. I mean, there are quite a few to look at. Cognism is another, I mean, as you move up market, zoom info.
0:24:09 But there may also be unstructured or at least a little bit relatively less structured data databases. Like they could be on Google Maps.
0:24:17 Um, you could use a tool like Surfer to identify them through search results. They could be on Yelp. They could be on, um, you know, Angie's list or h-o-u-z-z Houz.
0:24:25 Or something like that. So you're gonna think about just where are those prospects and then can I get them from a provider where they're ready enough that I can just put them right in the smart lady or do I need to do some sex sub segmentation within that.
0:24:39 So I maybe get a bunch of contacts from Google Maps, um, and then I use the tags in Google Maps.
0:24:44 So let's say I'm selling to car washes and I want to sell to car washes that, you know, uh, have like an express option.
0:24:53 Versus not just like any car wash like that's that's where you would use segmentation and into like play to potentially build that out and then um, you know, and then the thing is how do you do that on the recurring in a regular basis too?
0:25:03 Alright, let's go ahead and hear. Um, Rashad's got some great advice here. I mean, I'm not going to read the whole thing, but if you go to the chat and see what Rashad is talking about about creating subsets of leads and the number of sequences, um, I think that's exactly right, um, what what's being
0:25:17 mentioned there. Mayor John asks about bouncing, uh, percentages, what's high. Um, I would say, you know, it, it depends on your risk tolerance and, and look at how smartly it's going to measure that.
0:25:34 But some of the providers will talk about, you know, like, fine email talks about having a guaranteed refund, a refund or a satisfaction guarantee if the bounce rate exceeds 5%.
0:25:48 LeadMagic is another provider. We're closely with smartlead. Um, I think the thing about bounces that you have to remember that there are quite a few different reasons why I bounces can happen.
0:26:01 Exactly. And so it cost you want to talk about that a little bit and how smartly thinks about that because I think that's an important topic.
0:26:08 Absolutely, right? Because, you know, one thing that people think is they always fall back to the lead enrichment to lift their bounces.
0:26:14 But what I would suggest is to analyze the bounces. So in smartlead, in the inbox section, you'll basically have the bounce ripple that you've got.
0:26:22 So there are heart bounces, there are soft bounces. Usually, the one with NF code starting with 4 or so often, the one starting with 5 or heart.
0:26:28 But what I would recommend is, analyze your bounce. Down with the GPT, write a prompt pushy. The GPT see which reason seems to be more and we start working from there.
0:26:38 If it seems to be a case where lead does not exist anymore, then probably you should work around your lead enrichment tool and the verification process.
0:26:45 But if there are other things read, let's say, uh, recipients over rejected your email, which can be an indicator for poor deliverability or poor IP health.
0:26:53 We got to work from there. So that's one thing I want to highlight. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and so smartly build a lot of that stuff.
0:27:00 And again, on some of these platforms, it's literally not at all in there, right? Um, last thing I just wanted to touch on here, as we talk about this, um, stage in the outbound maturity curve, um, is that you're starting to think about how do we go from our outbound data model to a full funnel data 
0:27:27 model. So in smartlead, sales engagement platform and it can be, it can facilitate action for your sales team. One unique feature in smart lead is the ability to create manual steps in your sequence.
0:27:41 You can create call tasks, you can create, uh, social media outreach steps if your customers are on, you know, platforms like LinkedIn or X or something like that.
0:27:51 As we get those leads and they get marked as interested. Eventually, we're going to need to move them over to more of a full-life cycle understanding of, okay, they're now, they're, they went from an MQL, now they're an SQL, now they have a deal or an opportunity.
0:28:06 Eventually, that customer is going to convert. So there's this, uh, kind of conversion event that happens when it moves from one data model to another.
0:28:13 And this is where organizations that are at this level three, they're starting to think about that. Um, they have consistent understanding of that data and it's, and it's, and it's able to, um, Go from one system to, like, what's next?
0:28:26 What's the life cycle going to be? And how can I start to think about attribution? So I want to look at positive replies, but not only do I want positive replies, but I also want to think about positive replies that resulted in deals, positive replies that resulted in closed one revenue.
0:28:39 And how can I start to think about that? Um, and so in this stage three, when you're doing consistent sending One of the little things that you need to have in my opinion, if you're here, is you have to have a consistent naming convention for your campaigns.
0:28:55 If you're naming your campaigns differently each time, it's going to limit your ability to actually execute at this level. Because you're not going to be able to easily do reporting and cross object reporting and kind of dissect what's happening.
0:29:11 So a consistent naming convention, in my opinion, is a really important facet of being here. I just want to mention we have if you go to outboundsync.com We have let's go very long a couple thousand word article breaking down all of this with a lot more detail.
0:29:25 Um, so please feel free I know this recording is gonna be available after the fact you can always rewatch it You can always free chat to me with questions But we do have a little bit of a longer resource on this.
0:29:34 Um, I can um, what make make sure we make sure I can drop it in the chat here For people who are interested I mean stick with us.
0:29:39 Don't leave don't leave the conversation. Oops. Um, I sent it as a dm by accident There we go Um, but know that there's more here.
0:29:48 There's a lot more to this. Um, let's keep going. And we're almost done here. We're going to jump into a lot of time for Q&A at the end.
0:29:57 Um, so let me just find my little uh, screen control. Here it is. Okay, coordinated. So this is where we're starting to run more of a fine process.
0:30:12 We're starting to use more specialized tools. And we're trying to do more than a diagnostic stuff that we're talking about, but the, uh, reviewing a bounce data that Akash was talking about, super important.
0:30:25 You can have bounces because you're not, you know, I don't want to call anybody out here, but it's possible that you can have bounces because you're not doing a good job managing the health of the accounts and the domains.
0:30:35 The data is actually fine. You can also have bounces because they don't exist, right? You're sending to, you know, whatever.
0:30:44 Poop at acme.com. Yeah, that email address isn't real. So it's going to bounce, right? But you can have essentially throttled sending where your own email of a writer is blocking the sending from going out because of the, the, the health of the, of the inbox.
0:30:56 It's really important to think about that. Um, sometimes it's the data provider definitely, but sometimes it's you and sometimes it's sitting as you can control.
0:31:02 And so having, um, advanced metrics that allow you to manage that and spend time looking at that. It's super important.
0:31:08 Um, The other thing is that the copy at this point, your copy is better. You need to have that segmentation we talked about, you know, different types of car rushes, ones that have express car rushes versus like, um, more of like, uh, like where you, where your car go like goes through and it kind of
0:31:26 rolls through the line and it washes for you automatically versus the one where people do it or whatever. It's like, those are two different types of car rushes.
0:31:33 Those are going to need two different types of copy. They're going to have two different kinds of problems. So when you're running a coordinated campaign, Not only are you measuring the results, but you're also able to understand like why that copy is performing or underperforming.
0:31:45 So if you talk about the benefits, for example, of like if, you know, if you're, if you're a, uh, SaaS company, you're selling SaaS for car washes and you provide, you know, something that can allow customers can like pay on their own or something like that.
0:31:57 So the car wash can run 24-7 and companies get X percent more revenue overnight because people wash some people work, you know, different jobs and they end up taking their car to the car wash, you know.
0:32:09 Three in the morning or whatever. It's like these are the kind of things that you come and hit on and copy.
0:32:14 And so you're using that data and you're and you're having that data apply in your copy. And so this is beyond spin tax.
0:32:21 This is programmatic copy generation. So you've got like unique pitches and unique messaging positioning across that whole list. And then you're and then you're monitoring the performance of that over time.
0:32:32 And I also believe that part of running this is multi-channel outreach as part of the norm. And we talked about how smartly cannon facilitate that.
0:32:39 Using those manual steps, building in call tasks, building in social media touches. In my opinion, when you're getting here, to this stage, multi-channel is part of it.
0:32:49 Maybe it's WhatsApp. But you can't just be relying on one channel only to do all of the work. Absolutely. Especially if you're getting replies.
0:33:01 If you're sending an email and you get a reply back, you better do whatever it takes to convert that further.
0:33:06 The email tool did its job. You identified a person, you reached out, they confirmed they were interested via email. Now you gotta go be a salesperson.
0:33:15 You need to go do the job, the art and the science and the craft, you know, of selling, which is get in, get that to move forward.
0:33:23 Just because they replied to one email, those, I mean, they'll reply to every other one. People are gonna make a busy.
0:33:28 I'll give you an example here. So I have Three meetings that we have next week. And I've been following up with these people for a year to get the meeting booked.
0:33:42 It takes time. And you have to be patient. And if someone says they're just in what you do, guess how many times you should, uh, how many followups should you do?
0:33:52 Infinite. Keep following up until it's how you leave them alone. If they said they're interested and they have this problem and your product really works, you have an obligation to follow up with them.
0:34:02 Now, Eunice is asking about how do we do hyper-personalized emails? I think a tool like Clay is really powerful here.
0:34:08 Now there are others, um, you know, Databar and there are others that do similar things to what Clay does. Um, so, you know, it's an emerging category, I think, but basically, and you can even do it in Google Sheets.
0:34:19 Um, but you're going to have variables, and you're going to extract information about those, about those companies, and then you can use tools like ChatGPT , um, and others, other AI models to basically come up with that personalization.
0:34:32 And, and then what that looks like and smart lead is that those are going to be variables. Those are going to be variables inside of your smart lead sequences.
0:34:44 Now, we've got a good question here. Gave's asking, is it a reasonable expectation to be able to implement it on your own?
0:34:48 Frankly, It depends. I would say, like, I've seen a lot of organizations really struggle to adopt clay. This is part of the reason why I'm so bullish.
0:34:56 Just came from their animal theme here, why I'm so optimistic about the value of that agency's ad. This stuff is really hard.
0:35:03 And if you're not doing it day in and day out, and if your organization is reasonably big, you know, you're gonna have some resources and it'll probably just save you a heck of a lot of time to get someone come in and help.
0:35:16 Shops talking about how they're also using make To do some really interesting things here make.com for some interesting automation tools and some people may find that easier or zapier or things like that Yeah, this is an interesting question from units that I wanted to touch on how to smartly know which
0:35:34 variation for which company after I'm doing these personalized emails So smartlead does keep track of Variations definitely, but this is where I believe the naming convention is so important So if you have a really unique offer, my recommendation is that those should be separate campaigns.
0:35:50 Just when you think about the data model and the hierarchy of the data of the campaign, if you're doing this at the campaign level, it's much easier to parse out results.
0:35:58 My recommendation is that if you're doing variations within smartlead, that they should be variations within a theme. Testing comparable subject lines.
0:36:08 Now, smartlead does give you variation breakout reporting, which is awesome. But if you want to take that data and you want to extract it and do that transformation somewhere else if you're using other reporting and BI tools, I do believe that because smartly doesn't bill you for the number of campaigns
0:36:22 you have, I think there's a benefit in doing more of this variation at the campaign level. Okay, let's keep going here.
0:36:33 Some really good questions. Someone may be able to speak to this. Gabe's asking okay if I bring in someone what's the price range for a small company and trying to understand the scale of a budget.
0:36:47 So I would say like when you think about bringing in help, let's answer this and then we'll keep going. This is a great question by game.
0:36:52 Uh, so if you like about bringing in help, there's a couple of different ways people can help you. One is they can run the whole thing for you and end everything.
0:36:59 Uh, run the campaigns, manage the domains, write the copy, do all that stuff. I think increasingly we're finding people that can help with just like creating those clay tables.
0:37:09 More of, uh, specialized consultants that just focus on clay. It's, it's your job to bring the ICP and the knowledge, um, and maybe you may even manage most of the smart lead piece.
0:37:20 So I'd say if you go to Clay's community, um, Slack, and you say lists and we're hiring, we're really helping this role.
0:37:26 I think you might be able to get a sense of, of who can help you and what that budget looks like.
0:37:31 Um, Clay, it can be difficult to scope. Unless you have a really good sense of what you're asking for. Um, you might be able to do this on a project basis, or you might, might find somebody doing it on an hourly basis for you.
0:37:44 Um, but I would say my biggest advice just kind of keeping with the theme of today is you kind of walk before you've run.
0:37:49 So if you're doing campaigns at a certain level right now, you don't have to do this crazy, every single thing is GPT, maximize whatever.
0:37:58 Just, just get a little bit better today versus where you work today. So if you're not checking the, that is an email, for example.
0:38:05 Have you can have someone come in and help you set up a clay and and do the email verification. Or, you know, if you're doing that email verification, but then, you know, what you want to have is you want to do better segmentation.
0:38:14 Just have them help you use maybe, um, where we love us or or claygent to segment and split that list up into two or three buckets, something like that.
0:38:24 So that would be my my encouragement is thinking about incremental progress. Someone had a comment here that I thought was just spotted on about how Charles said it's never ending.
0:38:34 Uh, journey. Uh, I think that's right. I think that's exactly right. I think that's exactly the mindset you want to have.
0:38:41 And it said it's never ending journey. And you're going to keep going. Um, you know, the good news and the bad news.
0:38:47 It's kind of cissifician. I mean, you never get the bolder over the hill. You're always, you're always pushing, unfortunately, but, um, but that, you know, always get a chance to learn and get better too.
0:38:58 Alright, so let's talk about this last bucket here. Really great questions. I really, really, really appreciate it. The engagement, um, love the chat.
0:39:04 Thanks everybody. Um, let's talk about optimized. What does optimized look like? I think that the biggest thing that makes this unique versus the other things we talked about is the feedback loops and the automation.
0:39:15 Is that you've got triggers that are happening so that when you're when bounce rates hit a certain level or when reply rate exceeds in, you know, which is positive exceeds a certain level.
0:39:25 Oh, sorry. Um, uh, hold on my, this little thing is jumping out of control here. There we go. There's our cheetah.
0:39:32 Um, That, that, that it's a strategic asset that's driving other channels. You've got automation in multiple steps. You've got it fully integrated with the system of record.
0:39:42 You're able to see When things are working, you can follow it all the way through the funnel to closed one.
0:39:48 You can even look at retention. So I can say, hey, when I engage with someone from an outbound perspective, how long does it take me to close them?
0:39:56 What's the average deal size? How quickly do those deals close? What does our retention look like for outbound sourced versus inbound source?
0:40:04 You know, you're taking advantage of multiple channels and you've got a different, you know, you've got a team involved. You've got multiple people on the team involved.
0:40:12 And you potentially even have like an outbound leadership council. Some sort of strategic function within the org where people are sharing best practices between marketing sales and customer success and identifying, hey, like, this is an interesting thing that we're seeing in customer success.
0:40:26 Customers are telling us to turn onboarding that they actually switch from this other tool because we offer X. Get that to the SDR, get that to the GTM, get that function, get that to the agency.
0:40:39 We should be talking about that feature. Yeah, we offer it and during onboarding customers are stoked about it and here's why we should be running campaigns that speak to that pain point.
0:40:48 You know, that I think the biggest thing is that this at when you get running at level five or you've got a lot of automation and thing and there's a lot of communication cross-functional communication between the teams.
0:40:58 Um, I just wanted to touch really quickly on why you should sync to a CRM. Now we obviously focus on HubSpot and Salesforce, there are others.
0:41:05 Uh, many, many systems are record out there. We've got customers asking about sinking into data warehouses like Snowflake. I mean, I've mentioned this a few times, so I just want to drive this home.
0:41:13 You want to be able to attribute revenue. You want full final tracing of what's working and not just positive reply rate.
0:41:20 It's important. It's really important, but it's not everything. We don't just want replies because I can't, I don't know about you, but I can't pay my mortgage with positive replies.
0:41:28 I need people to eventually decide to give me money. And I think your organization is probably the same way. Um, we want to have visibility across the organization so people can see what's going on.
0:41:39 Not everyone's going to understand what's happening. And if we're using a really advanced go-to-market motion, very few people in the organization are going to understand what and the world we are talking about.
0:41:48 But at the minimum, we want them to able to see what's happening. So when it sales rep or an AE, when they get past the lead that we generate for them through a tool like smart lead, they can see what we were doing, right?
0:41:58 Without them having to necessarily understand how the, how it was made. They could just say, it tastes great. Love it.
0:42:04 Um, and then lastly, blocking outreach. You know, it's probably has very powerful block list function. API allows you to do that on a dynamic basis.
0:42:12 We want to use real, real time, real world data from our CRM when customers are moving into that status of customer or open deal or whatever.
0:42:19 We want to prevent them from outreach. So our CRM or our system of record, it's important for those reasons. Let's see.
0:42:26 We've got some comments here. I'll jump in here and I think we just kind of shifted a queue and I hear at the end.
0:42:30 But before we do that, Akash. I just wanted to give you a chance. Um, absolutely. I do take one. I'm going to, I'm going to also turn off my screen here because I got nothing on.
0:42:39 Well, I'll turn it off because I don't have anything else. Go ahead. Absolutely. So my question is, you know, talking to users on a daily basis, right?
0:42:46 You see, some people are probably on the level three already, as you mentioned. Yeah. Some people are probably on the level one.
0:42:51 And ideally, where they'd want to leave where it is. Anywhere it desires to be is in the level 5. So, if you can just give us a quick recap of pointers as what are one of the things that they need to look for?
0:43:03 If they have to straight jump into level 4 or level 5, what would it be? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, if basically you feel like you're doing outbound and you feel like it's not working.
0:43:16 Um, I think the first question is that the two places I think to look to move yourself up the curve are where am I getting my data from?
0:43:25 True. And, and how am I engaging my prospects? Um, and I think that if you improve your data sourcing, so you get, you get, uh, more fresh or more, um, more segmented lists.
0:43:41 And, and then you engage with those lists, using tools that, where when you send an email, then people actually get it, you know, that's what smartly is solving for.
0:43:50 I think we're doing those two things and then the third piece of that is that you do it consistently. That'll move you from like a level zero level one up to a level three level four.
0:44:01 Um, so, so yeah, I think it's, it's, it's, um, it's those three pieces. I think are the most important thing.
0:44:10 And so if you're not sure, um, the place I would start would be your tech stack, because if you're landing in spam, nothing else matters.
0:44:18 So start there. And the next place I would go would be where am I sourcing these lists from. Then The third one is what's my process.
0:44:29 And, and how am I doing this consistently? So that's what I, that's the order I would go with is if I'm landing in spam, stop landing in spam, if I'm emailing the wrong people, start emailing the right people, then let's email more people.
0:44:40 Um, but I would, I would go in that order. Yeah. And once the process is done, probably the next thing, uh, would it be, you know, looking at the reporting and understanding, having feedback groups basically?
0:44:51 Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah, I would say feedback loops and then and then looking at multi-channel like I mean, I think here's the thing like smartly it enables it to remain no tasks But like not all of this is like what a traditional sequencer has to do But you know, but I think what the point
0:45:04 is that you can only expect email to do so much like at some point if someone says to you I'm interested You you got to get their attention.
0:45:14 I mean what more do you want? They said yeah, I have this problem Pick up the phone, you know call them back addthem on LinkedIn sent them a note in the mail send them a direct mail to get their attention like email did its job, right?
0:45:29 I mean you discovered someone and they and they validated to you. Yeah. I'm interested. Um, if you're not willing to if you say, well, I emailed him back and they never got back to me.
0:45:39 I don't know, I guess. Okay. Like people are busy. It's not pretty. Yeah. It's not personal. People are busy. Man, it's, uh, that's one major advantage of one of the channels as well, right?
0:45:52 So even if it's a no or even if it's a no to student, you get to your from it at least say from any channel, be it call, be the message or be the link message at some point.
0:45:58 Yes. Totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And I think what the power of email is that allows you to do it at scale.
0:46:05 And that's incredibly useful because otherwise you're making 10,000 phone calls. I mean, I don't knowabout twoaypi, but I would rather make 10 calls.
0:46:12 Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, and so because that's, that's the most valuable time. So it's like, what do we want to do?
0:46:17 Well, you know, we use these tools to spend more time talking to our customers and to our perspective customers. And, um, so yeah, a really good question here by El Vira here.
0:46:27 Um, what's that way? What's that practice to move from active to consistent? So if the response rates are low, I would say, you know, if that means you're actively thinking about outbound, you're somewhat sporadically, but you are sending emails.
0:46:38 But if your response rates are low, I would focus on why before I'm consistently cranking out Underperforming campaigns. And that's not offensive.
0:46:47 It's okay. Response hits being low. It was okay. You're, you're learning. I can't tell you how many, I mean, I've been doing this for, you know, four years now.
0:46:58 Like the number one failure mode in outbound is failure to launch. It's not, it's not rockets blowing up in the sky.
0:47:07 It's people don't even build the rocket in the first place. I mean, that's the number one failure mode that I've seen an outbound over four years.
0:47:16 It's failure to launch, failure to just try. So if you're in that position, if you're in that active level, uh, like Elvira was asking about here, um, first of all, I just recognize that you're ahead of a lot of people who say, oh yeah, I'm sorry.
0:47:29 I watch this stuff. I watch these videos on YouTube. One day, I'm going to send some outbound. One day, one day, one day, one day, one day, one day.
0:47:36 So think about data. Think about segmentation. Think about the offer, um, and Enzo across at C17. doessome really excellent work on offers.
0:47:48 Um, I would say also it's possible that you may be getting some conversion from other channels. We work with understory who smartlead partner what we found they also run paid ads and what they found with their clients is that they have customers that are converting from other channels so they're not 
0:48:06 necessarily replying but then they go So, if they email 10 people, they've got another 10 to 20 that have been converting through other channels.
0:48:33 So, when you talk about replying to being low, definitely you want to improve that. It's possible, however, depending on your product and your go-to-market motion.
0:48:40 That you may be getting some conversion elsewhere. Um, so I would say think about that. And that's the value of getting the data into CRM, um, whether you do it, you know, with us or some other way.
0:48:50 But those conversions matter. Those conversions don't always come through the same channel at the same time from the same address.
0:48:56 Sometimes they come from somewhere else. Um, and that's a fact. We've looked at, I've looked at example after example, um, real data.
0:49:03 I mean, what? Well, OutboundSync partner OutboundBuddy, a smartlead partner that we had to campaign with them. Customers thought they only generated 17 meetings from rap bound in a single month, but then when they looked at multi-touch attribution, they looked at all conversion.
0:49:16 It was actually 52, 52 meetings that they had booked throughout bound, not 17, but they had to look at, they had to open the aperture, look at the whole funnel.
0:49:25 So that's something to think about when you think about conversion and is it working or not? I would, it depends on your situation, but I just want to mention it because I think it's relevant.
0:49:32 Um, we've definitely seen that. Which like, oh, actually, I've been working way better than we thought. Um, it's just that people don't always reply right away to the one message at that one time.
0:49:40 They forward it to somebody. They post it on the slack, you know. I like, like, and how is probably you open the flow for questions, right?
0:49:49 But before we do that, one last question from my end is agency versus doing this in-house. Because a lot of sales teams, a lot of early stage startups, they are confused as to if they can actually do everything in-house, or if they have to approach an agency.
0:50:04 What are your thoughts on it? And if, if they have to go for an agency, when is the right time that they can identify that?
0:50:11 Yeah. Um, I think that the agency versus houses are really interesting and it's a good question. I think that if you need results quickly, agency.
0:50:21 If you have some time, Or, if you have, uh, just an exceptional person on your team, then you can do it in-house.
0:50:34 If you're gonna do it in-house, pick a person. Pick that person who's good at figuring stuff out, they're creative, and they get stuff done, and stick them on it.
0:50:47 Don't have the whole team try to figure it out at once. Get success going with one person who's really competent and capable and then replicate what they're doing across your org and they'll know your internal process and your internal requirements and they'll be able to build it specific to your org
0:51:03 . Um, but that those are the people who have seen the people who have seen success while I've done it that way.
0:51:11 And we'll pick up questions from the chat, but people, like, you know, the floor is also open for questions. So if you'd want to berically be on Spotlight, ask your questions to Harris.
0:51:19 Please, please raise your hand. Uh, you have the react icon in the center. Just click on that, raise hand, and I'll spotlight you.
0:51:25 You can ask your questions directly to Harris. There you go. Philip, if you can turn on your video, I'll go ahead and spotlight you made.
0:51:53 All right. So what you can do is I'll probably unmute you directly. So there you go, we can go ahead and ask you a question.
0:52:00 Can you unmute yourself? Yeah. My camera is not working so that's why my screen is black. So my question right now I'm targeting e-commerce brands and I'm trying to find ways to personalize my emails so that each email is basically unique and Right now, the, the offer is, is, is a free audit of Google
0:52:29 ads and also their, their site for zero. And, um, I'm, I'm trying to find ways to personalize e-trim, so I'm, I'm not sure how exactly to do it.
0:52:41 The person who is the email, like, scrape their, their site and personalize by the products they're selling or personalize by, what?
0:52:51 Who their likely target market is or or some other ways. Yeah. I mean, my, I mean, right now I can love the answer, but I think the, you know, you're going to learn this just by testing.
0:53:05 I don't know exactly what, um, you're, you're solving what problem you're solving for them. Um, but it's going to depend on on.
0:53:13 On that and that'll determine the personalization that you might want to put in there. So if you're improving their conversion rate on their page, or if it's a security thing, or if it's financing, I don't know, or web dev or something like that, you're just going to have to test it.
0:53:28 Now, fortunately with e-com, they're very transactional, and so, and you can make some assumptions. Eric has done some good videos, basically like extrapolating based on the average value of these products, with here's what I think we can save you if we improve XYZ or whatever.
0:53:42 It's like abandoned cart or whatever. Um, and it looks like there's some feedback here potentially in the chat as well that you might want to check out.
0:53:50 Um, but I think you're, I think you're just going to have to test it. Um, and, I think that if you use a tool like clay, it can allow you to create those multiple variations at scale programmatically.
0:54:00 Um, but I would think about where you've had conversion, like for the customers that you have, why? What is it that what was the problem they have?
0:54:08 And I would just focus on that and try to replicate that success. Um, because what you're doing is relatively unique.
0:54:14 And so I would, I would try to focus on that. Um, but like just an audit, it's kind of like, eh, people get emails like that a lot.
0:54:21 Um, Try to try try try try to figure out how to stand out, but I also maybe somebody here has better experience to become more experienced become than I have.
0:54:29 So I don't I don't want to act like the total authority on that one. Glad. Yeah. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you, Philip.
0:54:39 Any other questions? How do we can turn on the video? I'll support you, sir. There you go. Go for your question.
0:54:48 All right. Thank you. Hi, Harris. Can you hear me okay? Here's a clear. Alright, awesome. Uh, so thank you for all this great information.
0:54:57 I love that kind of maturity life cycle. Uh, so interestingly enough, we are in the industry with supporting a new regulation that they just passed.
0:55:06 I hate regulations, unless it brings new business. It's called cyber security maturity model. So for all of the, uh, defense contractors or all the companies that have worked with the defense, uh, industry, uh, defense, uh, The, the I.B.
0:55:21 Uh, they have to get new certification. So we build the product. So we build a list and we're trying to reach out to them and we have a handful of customers.
0:55:29 So we're starting to, uh, uh, build campaigns to get to them. But we're starting from zero, no experience. And, and you know, a lot of great feedback and I'm starting to fumble in the dark.
0:55:42 We build warmed up all our accounts. I should say about 47. Nice. And what we like to do is work with some agencies to really, we like to use our systems.
0:55:54 We like to do things in-house and learn. And agencies want to kind of bring everything in-house and keep the data, keep the lists.
0:56:03 And I'm wondering if your agency would be able to kind of work with us with our system, provide coaching. Do you work in a system like that where companies, if you work with the companies to kind of guide, be compensated based on kind of the outcomes and the performance.
0:56:19 But more with their within their system. So we have obviously Smartlead and we'll probably sign up for clay, uh, we use this to get data from them, but I hate those b******* because they make you work for hours to click button to research, which I don't understand why they do that.
0:56:37 Uh, we'll probably switch to Smartlead, uh, LeadMagic to do that. But anyways, I'm interested in to understand if you have any kind of thoughts on how to get going.
0:56:49 Yeah, yeah. Provide coaching advice and. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so I mean, so for me, for us, like, so I don't, I don't run an agency anymore.
0:56:58 I did shut my agency down, but we will work with a bunch. And so I can give you some perspective.
0:57:01 So generally, the performance based paper lead model, they, they tend to run the whole thing end to end. And they also tend to send more email.
0:57:09 Um, but all you get, all you pay for are the qualified leads and the pay per meeting, depending on your, um, customer value, you know, those, that pay per meeting can be anywhere from, you know, I don't know, a couple hundred dollars to even up to a thousand dollars.
0:57:22 It depends on what you do, who you talk to, but they tend to own the process. So I think if I were you, what I would focus on, I would probably drill down and focus on either like a clay person who can help manage that process of segmentation for you and or a copywriter.
0:57:38 Dean's asking if this is going to be available. Dean, I believe the answer is yes, but I'll let smartlead answer that.
0:57:43 Um, so I think I would focus on a specific area where you're stuck and just get a specialist for that.
0:57:48 If you want to, if you want to shepherd the whole process through. Frankly, like your setup is smartlead, you're already familiar with multiple data providers.
0:57:55 Um, you would know the problem with which is this regulatory shift. I think that probably I would just focus on a copywriter.
0:58:03 And or maybe a clay person to help on the on the data side. Um, I don't think I don't think I don't think you need an end person.
0:58:09 I would just take a shot at it like you're doing. And I just wanted to say to everybody here. I mean, first of all, if you think you can help, um, uh, if you think you can help, give it give a holler, right?
0:58:20 Maybe you can help mount, um, so maybe set up a message after it's only to have fun on LinkedIn. If you can help her route.
0:58:26 But, um, well, how do I find like people? Yeah, well, smartlead has it anyone, smartly has it. Yeah, yeah, smartlead has an expert directory.
0:58:36 You should check out, uh, but I just want to say in general that everyone here, this kind of regulatory shift.
0:58:43 This is a great use case for outbound. So we're talking about being reactive for proactive. There's a change in the market overnight, something changed.
0:58:51 This is exactly the kind of thing where outbound can work really well, especially if you have a good offer. But this is something where like the thing about outbound is like we can find the right people and we can get a message in front of him.
0:59:01 It's like a private ad network. Uh, a lot of people are using that and I think that's exactly right. This is the kind of thing where outbound tends to do really well.
0:59:10 Um, so it's me. It sounds like a really exciting opportunity. It sounds like you put some good engineering and thought into a higher sum of the problem.
0:59:17 So I would say yeah, to me, ultimately, yeah, it's the list two components of read whether this works for you or not.
0:59:23 It seems like the list And then the copy, specifically the offer, so to think about maybe finding copy writers, uh, in particular.
0:59:30 Uh, we sent, so with the list, what we did, we went and, uh, Sam, I heard of Sam.gov. We basically, everyone who gets a contract from God.
0:59:37 So we extracted the data from there, who, anyone who got an award from the DOD Department of Defense. And then we reversed and it mirrored that founded domains and then found all the contacts from that.
0:59:48 So we know they got a contract from the DOD and we know they have to comply with this regulation. So it's not, we're not shooting in a dark.
0:59:54 Yeah, because every, you know, he hands out almost a trillion dollars a year under anything from weapons to satellites to chicken eggs and uniforms, right?
1:00:04 So every industry can think of, you can't segment it. Uh, so how do I find that directory, by the way?
1:00:10 Is, uh, the guys in the world can find us kind of qualified copywriters or clay experts? Yeah, so if you go to smartlead.ai, I'll let the smartly team follow up, but, um, there should be, uh, under resources, there should be a certified partners page.
1:00:26 Um, you, how do the website, uh, so smartly, uh, so different. Yep. You can give me the link. I don't see it.
1:00:36 I, uh, you guys have resources. I'll certify partners. Here we go. And all right. Yep, and you can do it.
1:00:53 There's ways to filter that by a specialty email copywriting. Okay. Cool. Probably use copywriting. All right. Well, thank you. I appreciate it.
1:01:03 Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks for coming. All right. What was your website, by the way, because it was trying to look for that article you mentioned on.
1:01:11 Oh, yeah. Uh, yeah. Uh, so we're about sync.com. Yeah, I'll give up on sync.com. I can, I can drop it in the chat here.
1:01:18 Um, yeah, if you just type in, let me see how, how good we are with Google. Let me see. Outbound journey curve.
1:01:30 Yeah. If you just type in nice, cool. If you just type in outbound maturity curve in Google, you should get it.
1:01:38 Okay. You mentioned there's like a big article you had on tagging or organizing, uh, Names? Um, sure. Might be spacing.
1:01:57 I'm not sure. Uh, it's all right. Cool. Okay. Awesome. Great, great questions, man. Thank you very much. Oh, yeah. There's a link to join the Smartlead Slack community this time.
1:02:06 If you're not in the Slack community for Smartlead, definitely, definitely, definitely join that. Hi, I'm sorry. No, we overshot this by five minutes.
1:02:17 My question will be really quick. So, uh, we are an automation as a service agency where we create workflows and, uh, basically tailor to specific business cases.
1:02:29 And currently we are, uh, running this offer where we do two complimentary workflows and do a complimentary automation audit. And, uh, The show in the market is people, they are kind of scared, uh, because the policies, their, their SOPs, they do change all the time.
1:02:51 And obviously market is very dynamic. So sometimes their business requirement changes and that is why we have this, um, 90 days post implementation support.
1:03:03 But still, I cannot get people to say yes. Is there something wrong with my offer or, uh, like, uh, I need a copywriter because I've been in this space for past six, seven years.
1:03:20 We get, uh, good three to four percent of the response rate and a quarter of these responses are positive. Yeah.
1:03:30 Yeah. I mean, I like, I like what you're thinking about. I mean, I just, you create comments in the chat, obviously.
1:03:35 I get a sense that you know what you're talking about, or you're using ChatGPT to make comments. Not at all.
1:03:41 Not all. So what I think, um, you know, it's a means to an end, right? Like nobody wants a workflow.
1:03:49 They want the result of the workflow. And so I think if you think about, look at the ones that you've built in the past and like, where do they sit within the organization?
1:03:58 And what's the problem that you're solving? I know we're a little long here, folks. I think we'll probably go for three more minutes.
1:04:02 Maybe if that's okay with everybody's, we'll try to get to Eunice's question and then we'll probably call it. Uh, you have to think about what is the workflow solving for them and center your solution around that, right?
1:04:14 Okay. Hey, like, um, you know, we've helped companies automate their handoff from like sales to customer success. And as a result, the retention has gone up.
1:04:23 You know, do you have any workflows or between those departments that you think like you could maybe use help solving to help your customer.
1:04:29 To help improve your attention or your, uh, reduce your onboarding time or accelerate your time to value. Like, that's the thing that they want to solve and the workflow is the means to the end and they might, because people's willingness to put up with crappy process is like pretty high, right?
1:04:43 Like they're willing to put up, I mean, they're obviously already putting up with it, right? They're already working with you, right?
1:04:47 So you have to kind of tie it to like, I get it, like, nobody wants to build another workflow per se, but don't you want this other thing?
1:04:55 So that, that I think, I think the, the, the offer is an interesting one. Because look, this is, this is how I get you there.
1:05:02 But that is the thing that they, no one like wakes up and says, I would love somebody for me to build a workflow today, you know, um, but they do say, gosh, I'm working stuck.
1:05:12 Why are onboardings working stuck? Why is it taking us a month to finish I'm working? It should be like closer to two weeks.
1:05:18 And you say, well, data from the sales team is not getting passed over to customer success. So they're having to start from scratch every time or data from marketing is not getting passed to sales.
1:05:29 Stuff like that, you know, sales is having to manually do research, and so we solve that for you. The way we do it is workflows.
1:05:35 I can build two and so you can see how it works. Is that interesting? So I would think I would try to think about that.
1:05:39 It's a hard problem. It's a hard problem. I mean, you're obviously smart guys. It's not like, not like easy, but I would think about.
1:05:45 I think I would personally think about it that way. I understand. I'll implement this in my next campaign. Definitely. Okay.
1:05:53 Awesome. Awesome. Alright, Eunice, Eunice, you're closing us now, man. Yeah, last question for today is going to be Eunice. Sorry if I can turn on the video.
1:06:02 I'll quickly spotlight you. Are you in there? Or even can you unmute yourself at least? We're gonna fall asleep with his hand up.
1:06:17 Yeah, there he is. No, no, no, no. I'm trying to unmute it, but it's all good now. All you guys doing?
1:06:23 Oh, good, sir. Thanks for coming. Yeah. Yeah, thank you too, man. First of all, thank you so much for the call for the knowledge, especially Harris.
1:06:31 It's been really helpful for us. My question is really quick. So, as you said, like, you use clay. So, I was wondering, like, how can I get to the step to the personalization of, like, phrases in the emails at skill, like, using ChatGPT for scrapping or like, website scrapping?
1:06:52 Because, like, I want to have, like, different emails or Each prospect, because now I have the list. Uh, I have the emails.
1:07:00 It's been warmed up since like four or five weeks now. So I'm thinking to, to just get this done so I can start like the ball get rolling, you know.
1:07:10 Yeah, totally. Um, so there's like, I think like there's, there's three ways to do this. So well, four, I guess, the, the basic way would be like every email is the same.
1:07:19 We don't want, we don't want to do that. Um, The next is using spin, spin tax, right? So you're finding just equivalent words.
1:07:26 Hi, hey, hello, you know, Buenos dias, good morning, howdy. Okay. Um, and, and smartlead support that and spend other than nothing, but we can do better.
1:07:35 Um, the next thing is I think to take your copy and break it into chunks. So instead of just single words, spintax, take like a sentence and you can use AI.
1:07:44 To generate variations of sentences and you break that email into chunks of like pain point, solution, next step or whatever.
1:07:51 It's like a three, three chunks of the email. I think the final version would be that you're feeding all of those into like a larger prompt and you're having GPT through Clay programmatically write each email unique, um, with reference to emails and Clay has some built-in templates that can help you 
1:08:06 do that. Um, and if you, and if you're, if you're kind of heavy handed about how you're prompting it, then you can make sure that it's not just like adding like, uh, I hope all of those well or whatever the stuff at the beginning that you don't want, um, that would be like the kind of the four ways to
1:08:20 think about it. First one, don't do it. Uh, everything's the same. Second one, spin text. Okay. But spintax allows you to start thinking structurally about the email and the components of the email and then the last one is you put what you're doing when you're creating those structure pieces.
1:08:34 You push that into a prompt and then you have GPT do it, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, each time, and you can feed it more context, feed it the company description, feed it the industry, feed it, head count, feed it, the title of the product, the contact stuff like that.
1:08:48 And how do you do it like the feed them part? Is it like using clay? Because I don't have any of our clay for the work.
1:08:53 Yeah, yeah, so each of those would be columns, right? So imagine you have a table spreadsheet clay table and you have like job title, then you have industry, then you have company description.
1:09:02 Then in your final play like composition column in that problem, you would say, I'm going to give you information about a company, including their job title industry company description.
1:09:12 And then you kind of work through and then you would give an example email to have it work off of.
1:09:18 Okay, so you're like in the beginning for a play, you give emails, then you get like all the information so you can personalize it on this information, the emails, yeah?
1:09:26 Exactly. Okay, I see. I see. I see. Okay. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you. Great. Great question. Great question.
1:09:34 And Trophic mentioned Clay Twain integration. Definitely check that out. How is? Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming in for the second time.
1:09:43 We'd love to have you more and this was gold, right? Uh, for me, I got a lot of new pointers.
1:09:47 This was absolutely, you know, crazy. And people check out OutboundSync . Uh, you OutboundSync . The website is there on the chat and you search for the article.
1:09:57 It's probably I think, you know, how does your smile made me realize it's showing up on the top. So it's dropped up there on top.
1:10:03 Check it out. Check out our bone sink and quick call outs from mine before I finish up. Smartlead based plan user's API is live of a global analytics version 2 is going to be out live next week.
1:10:15 And they also have some new vendors who are going to be on board with the smart sender next week. So these are updates from my side.
1:10:21 Do you have anything else before you part ways? No, thank you all. It's a privilege to chat with the community here.
1:10:26 I really appreciate everyone's time and I really appreciate all the active participation makes this makes this really fun. So thank you all very much.
1:10:33 Absolutely. Thank you so much for taking time people. Uh, as you always say, three consistent things in life, death, taxes, and office hours every Thursday.
1:10:42 See you all on the next one. Have a great week. Yes. Bye.