Scaling outbound in HubSpot: An interview on OutboundSync’s approach

In this episode of Better Together, Harris Kenny (Founder, OutboundSync) joins Blake Lytle of Supered conversation to share how OutboundSync helps HubSpot users seamlessly integrate outbound data into their CRM, unlock revenue attribution, and support scalable, compliant outbound sales motions.

They discuss Harris’ journey from agency partner to app partner, the challenges of early outbound adoption in the HubSpot ecosystem, and how OutboundSync now helps sales teams and HubSpot partners drive better results with tools like Smartlead, Instantly, and EmailBison.

Watch the video or read the full transcript below to learn how HubSpot users are running multi-channel outbound at scale—better, together.

Sections

The sections below include a clickable timestamp that will take you to the exact point in the conversation where this topic is discussed. 

0:06 - What Better Together is all about & why you should care

0:19 - Meet Harris Kenny & how he went from agency owner to app builder

1:40 - Why outbound was ignored in HubSpot for so long (and why that’s changing)

3:33 - The big shift: How outbound is now driving massive revenue for HubSpot users

7:50 - Who NEEDS outbound sync (If you check these boxes, call Harris ASAP)

11:29 - The secret sauce: How Abound Sync + Supered transform sales reporting

15:12 - Why HubSpot partners should be doubling down on outbound NOW

21:37 - HubSpot’s product team is ahead of the market—here’s what that means for you

22:49 - How to get started with outbound (without breaking your system)

Transcript

00:05 Everybody, welcome to Better Together. This is going to be a new series about HubSpot and its app partners and how we are helping build the HubSpot ecosystem to make HubSpot even more powerful for you, the end user and partners.

00:20 Uh, today, I got Harris Kenny here. He's, uh, awesome to work with. I've been, I've known him for a while now.

00:27 It's probably been like a year or so. Uh, actually met him from super. He's one of our users and uh, he's been really joy to learn from.

00:34 So, uh, let's dive right in. So, where I like to start is I know you started your journey as a partner.

00:42 I really would like to understand like, how did you come up with this idea? Like, why did you decide to go all in on like building this company versus building your agency and like, what's your goal of this company?

00:57 For sure. Well, first man is great to chat, and it was fun meeting you in person at INBOUND as well.

01:02 Yeah, I was about ecosystem is small. I think we bumped into each other at the airport, and I was like, I know you.

01:08 Which I feel like that happens a lot in, uh, inbound world. But I ran a solutions partner agency, uh, shout out to my old CAM, Jake Basile, great guy.

01:19 We, I ran that agency for a couple years. I was doing outbound. So I mean, I started doing sales consulting in 2019.

01:26 And so it's, you know, it's almost six years since I went out on my own now. And I was helping, especially hardware companies with scaling because I had worked in hardware for six years.

01:38 And I was noticing like a lot of times they didn't have systems. So, you know, we was doing a combination of outbound for them and then setting up CRMs and a lot of times it was HubSpot.

01:46 So I decided to become a HubSpot partner. And then sort of inevitably these companies were asking like, Hey, could we get this outbound?

01:55 Data, these leads in HubSpot, because you just set us up with HubSpot as our CRM, and there weren't great integrations for that.

02:02 And so that was kind of where the app for OutboundSync came from. It was, I had a client, and, you know, we were using smartly, I initially set up the first version of it with make, and using ChatGPT, figured out the API calls, and it was okay, but it was like very brittle, and it broke a lot.

02:18 And, uh, so then did a trade with a client, actually, where they built the first like full code version. And, um, then it was posting about it, it was getting traction, started getting people saying they didn't actually want my help on the services side, they just wanted the app.
02:31 And so that was happening more and more. And then, you know, the HubSpot ecosystem is very big. And so there were a lot of users out there.

02:38 And I really kind of built our own demand through posting on LinkedIn and stuff, but I guess we were capturing demand from what was existing with HubSpot users.

02:45 But, you know, at the time, like, all bound was not a thing really. Like, yeah, early you had HubSpot solutions partners and stuff, just ripping on cold email or the idea of doing anything that wasn't like 100% your vanilla inbound funnel.

03:01 Um, so you know, quite a few people like discouraged me from building it and said like, oh, this isn't a good idea or the sequencers are going to build it or this isn't really what house spots for.

03:11 Um, but I don't know. I just had enough people that wanted it that I thought it might be a good idea.

03:15 You did the opposite. You built a successful agency and then you're like, oh shoot. Like. People have this need even though other partners are saying they don't.

03:24 I mean, I go make this for my clients, then your clients are like, yes, give me more of this and you just went all in.

03:29 And you're like, I'm gonna do this. Yeah, I mean, sweet. I mean, yeah, I mean, just like real talk here, we signed 25 clay and growth agencies as partners before we signed one HubSpot partner as a partner.

03:43 What? For our product. Yeah. That's insane. Well, I mean, so for two years, I've been kind of talking about this.

03:50 And I mean, nobody was ever like mean to me about it. But they were just like, yeah, no, this isn't it.

03:55 And maybe the time wasn't right. Maybe the product wasn't ready. Maybe I was doing a bad job explaining it. I don't know.

03:59 I'm not saying like, I'm just saying like, what happened, you know? So, so it was definitely hard. I mean, and I will say like, I mean, it was a small, we were tier, so we were a gold tier agency.

04:08 We almost got diamond. We were like literally 30 points away from diamond. But I liked it. I had some really people on my team.

04:14 It just felt like, oh man, it just felt like this pole of the market. I mean, to be honest with you, the agency was reasonably successful and it was fun.

04:22 Um, but I was having more interesting calls on the app side. Like bigger companies, more sophisticated teams were like, hey, tell us tell me about this.

04:33 And I feel like I was running above average, but like really, like if you look at the partner directory to get tier, like not a lot of partners get that far.

04:41 So it was above average agency, but But it still felt like what we were doing on the app side was really more exceptional.

04:48 It was just more like while there were a lot of like, I don't want to say haters or but there were skeptics.

04:53 There were enough people that were like, hey, actually tell me more about that. I mean, just to give an example, like literally our biggest customer today, um, he explicitly told me that he's like, you should not start this.

05:04 Eric knows lots of you. Yeah, we love about it all the time. Yeah, Eric knows lots of you growth engine X who's he's an amazing growth hacker.

05:11 He's helped a lot of teams. He's helped clay. He, I mean, we laughed about it, but he literally explicitly was like, this is just not a good idea.

05:18 I don't think I wouldn't be a customer. And, uh, and now he's actually our biggest customer and we're working with him on tons of projects.

05:24 Uh, tons of his clients use our, our product to, to get revenue attribution and activities thinking and, and get reps, um, visibility for, so it's pretty funny.

05:32 It's pretty funny. It's, it's, it's been a fun journey. That is funny. I got a comment and then another question.

05:38 So I want, I want to dig into this a little bit more. My comment is, It's very funny that you mentioned like outbound was a bad word because like even at HubSpot, um, I worked there for like almost three years and we were doing outbound because our inbound funnel starts slowing down a lot.

05:56 That just hit home when you're like, everybody told me it's a bad idea and like they weren't gonna do it yet.

06:01 Freaking HubSpot's been doing it forever or so. Totally. And you know, for sure, I mean, I've said that the same exact thing to people before.

06:10 It's like HubSpot actually has a great sales team. And like a big sales team. And, um, oh, I don't know.

06:15 Look at their stock price for the last 15 years. They seem to be doing a pretty good job hitting their numbers.

06:21 Um, and I don't think that's entirely because of ebooks or whatever, you know, like they have. Has actually in my opinion an exceptional sales organization and like working with Jake in the, you know, as my CAM.

06:32 I know the change that I'm CAMs anymore, but you know, you saw that. And they did a great job supporting you and figuring out, I know that partners sometimes like want more help or whatever, but I think I felt like a way out of a ton of support.

06:43 I was really grateful for the program. I feel like, I mean, I was like, why are you like helping me so much?

06:48 This is crazy. Like, you know, um, so I'm super grateful for it for what it was. Um, and I think that now being on the out partner side, I think there's a lot of room for growth, I should say, um, with the app marketplace and the app ecosystem and I'm seeing how it's about to do more and more there.

07:06 And I think that like for us, we've got now like the UI elements to plug into. We've got like workflow actions.

07:12 There's a lot of things that we can do to surface our product inside of HubSpot more that, um, that we're thinking about now that I think we have a pretty good foundation in terms of how we're writing to the existing standard data model of like contact object, company object, doing associations, logging

07:27 activities, timeline events. I feel like we're doing kind of like the, like a good foundation. But I think that from here, there's a lot more we can do.

07:32 Yeah. I mean, this actually was my next question, so that's literally perfect. I want to understand, because like, even though we've worked together, like, you're our client of ours, like, I want to understand, like, what gap are you feeling?

07:46 And like, if I'm a HubSpot customer, like, what problem are you solving for me? Like, who is the person? If I'm like, hey, I struggle with X.

07:58 Like, who would that be where it's like, hey, this is a home run? You should have talked to me yesterday.

08:03 Yeah, totally. So I would say like, our product is not for everybody. It's definitely a niche app. I think that's part of why we've had success is because it's easy to understand what we do and either you're in or you're out and like, no worries if it's not a fit, right?

08:17 Um, so our typical user on the hotspot side, they are in one of a couple of places. There's a concept we're kind of building out called like the outbound maturity model, wrap up maturity curve, but they're potentially not doing any outbound.

08:31 And when I say outbound, I just mean like, You are proactively starting conversations with people, who maybe weren't expecting to hear from you.

08:38 Like, it could be a cold email, it could be a phone call, it could be door to door. Like, you know, the point is just like, you've got salespeople that are on like, um, taking initiative to like start things, you know, and uh, it's not just like purely marketing is generating content through the website

08:53 and through social or whatever, and then that's getting fed to reps to reply, close and move on. And, uh, maybe they're doing not at all, maybe they're doing some with sequences in sales hub, but kind of like, there's a point where they start to like misuse sales hub and they start sending like a lot

09:06 of emails out of it, which it's, yeah, not, it's not built for, um, it's not the point of it. Um, and so then they eventually look at other sequencing and sending tools.

09:15 And so we support getting data from, uh, Smartlead, Instantly, EmailBison. Getting data from those tools into HubSpot. And the problem that we're solving, so, you know, first the thing is like, hey, deliverability or just like more volume that I want to be hitting, um, potentially like using some of the

09:34 features that are like around like AI for sequencing and things like that, that some of these tools have built out pretty nicely or built in contact databases or built in email validation, something like that.

09:44 Then once they they're accomplishing that, then they want the data back in HubSpot. And once it's in HubSpot, Like, there's two jobs to be done.

09:50 The first job is like, get the data in there from a, written to a consistent set of like objects and properties with a consistent set of associations so that it's like clean and hub spotty.

10:01 But then once it's in, that's done. Then the question is like, what do I do with it? And that's where super it comes in for us because we have packages for lists, workflows, and reports, and like rolled up into a dashboard.

10:12 And so we help them do revenue attribution, funnel tracking, like managing lead follow up. Stuff like that with the outbound data and super helps us do that and so we're on like the first the fourth version of our Outbound dashboard That and like so basically each new version of it We kind of tweak the

10:32 charts add some more and the idea is like you've got all this outbound data in there But like now you want to see like which campaigns are specifically attributed to revenue or you know If you're using multiple sequencers which sequencers may be outperforming the other one when it comes to generating

10:45 replies or something like that Okay, so essentially, if I'm going to boil it down to like a run on sentence, yeah, something I could do in the sentence.

10:54 Um, like the gap you're filling in the market is, hey, I'm either heavy in the outbound and I'm in HubSpot and I'm using a certain tech stack for it or I'm dabbling in outbound and I'm starting to break HubSpot because it's not designed necessarily for outbound.

11:11 That's when people should start thinking like, hey, I should probably talk to outbound sync. And maybe like get introduced to one of the partners in their network since I'm assuming you probably have like a list of partners that can help them.

11:23 Yep. What's step beyond because like what I didn't realize is I knew y'all did the data side. I didn't realize you also helped them have a reporting structure.

11:33 So that way they could know like what actually works. And more importantly, if you are working for a partner, they know what the heck works so they can actually.

11:42 Yeah, definitely. I mean, so that's where like. That's that that's we're being able to provide the package just comes in.

11:49 I mean, we use HubSpot, so we have a knowledge base and we have tickets and stuff like that, but I mean getting it just plunked right into your portal is There's nothing like that.

11:59 I mean, because right away, as soon as you start sending, the data is going to start filling in and you can track your sending volume and you can basically manage your outbound function inside of HubSpot, even though everything isn't happening inside of HubSpot.

12:11 Um, and it actually gives you a super compliant way to do outbound with HubSpot. Because with Outbound Sync, you can also require that like a contact has like been marked as interested before they even get synced in at all.

12:22 And then you can also have block lists from HubSpot pushing back out to the Outbound tool. So you can like have Um, like a universal block list.

12:30 So if you have like a subscription type where it's like, hey, never email this person again. Yeah. You can then push that we have a, um, uh, like workflow that supports that, which we package is super.

12:41 You can then push that block also to the up on tool. So, you know, I think in a sense, it allows outbound it in a way that's like very aligned with how, um, How HubSpot has grown to date.

12:53 It's it's definitely not just like spam spam your TAM kind of thing. You know, I mean, and we built some I think power user features to allow companies to have a lot of granular control over like what goes in, what goes out, how it gets, um, how it's managed.

13:08 Nice. That's cool. I didn't know any of this. So I'm going. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's like a data thing.

13:14 So yeah, well, and you know, we're also like. It's essentially the connective tissue of how do you actually effectively do outbound in HubSpot if you have this certain tech stack?

13:25 Definitely. Well, and then if you start talking about like, hey, I'm running paid ads, and I want to run outbound, but I also want to trigger a LinkedIn campaign, and I want to run that through HubSpot, we can enable that.

13:35 And I want my reps to pick up the phone and do a call, and I'm using like, I've got a HubSpot number hooked up to my phone, and I've got an inbound, or like an outbound lead that comes in that are interested, but they didn't respond to my email.

13:45 Well, I can, I can do my calling action from inside of HubSpot and I can get in touch in there or if I've got like, uh, sales navigator integrated.

13:52 You know, so it allows you to like basically do on each channel stuff too. But I mean, we're starting to work with some really excellent HubSpot partners, although it has like, I think, I think we were a little early.

14:02 We have some really incredible HubSpot partners coming on board. Um, all three of them also use Superd, just by which you didn't know that, but just by the way.

14:09 I didn't know that anything. Yeah. So we'll be, uh, we'll be working with them to build Versions of the op-ons and packages for them with their own sort of process and other sort of secret sauce that they've built into how they're using Supered for their clients.

14:25 Sweet. That was actually the last thing I wanted to hit on. You're really good at just like guiding me into where I want to go.

14:31 I love it. We didn't, we didn't prep. There were no notes. I know. That's why I'm like, this is working way better than I thought it was going through.

14:38 Um, so what I always like to figure out at the end of these are like This is mostly for my own edification because I'm just like curious about partner because that's why I grew up in HubSpot was like being a PDM.

14:49 Um, how are you thinking of like as an app? How are you thinking of partnering with HubSpot partners? Is that a priority?

14:58 Who's a good fit? How can this help them grow their agency? Like, I know that's a lot of questions like a break it down more.

15:05 Um, but maybe let's start there. Like how are you thinking of partnering with HubSpot partners as an app partner? And we'll kind of go from there.

15:13 Yeah, so I mean, I think that probably in the long run, I don't know how many HubSpot partners will be a fit to use our app.

15:20 Um, I suspect not a lot, but it doesn't need to be a lot. We really. They need to be wanting to run all-bound plays that, you know, the partners that we're working with right now, like they have hired either internally or through contractors, people that understand play.

15:40 That understand how to like spin up infrastructure to do outreach. And, and a lot of times they're helping clients who have salespeople and they want to keep those salespeople busy and they just want those salespeople doing better work.

15:50 And like not everyone is like that in the HubSpot ecosystem. Some of them are more focused on like the CMS side and web dev.

15:56 Some of them are more marketing and, you know, running, running paid advertising campaigns for people and not really touching sales hub.

16:03 So, you know, it just depends on, um, I'm on the partner, the makeup of the partner, but of the of the fraction or percentage of partners that are interested in kind of this go-to-market wave.

16:18 I guess you could say that's that's happening right now. Um, for them, I would say, like, definitely that one think could help them because you know, the problem structurally is like, you've got these outreach tools, but their funnel stops like halfway through the funnel because it's like, okay, I reached

16:35 out, they replied, they're interested. Cool. Like, they're There's still like you still have to get them from an instant reply to like You know convert them from the lead object or whatever or you just convert them to like opportunity And then you have to have the deal and the deal has to close like 

16:48 there's so many so so many things that have to happen after that and so we're grafting one data model from these up on tools to this much richer data model of HubSpot.

16:59 And so there's so much room for an agency to get in there and add value. You know, all these layers of like, hey, we're going to enrich phone numbers and then we're going to run this kind of reporting.

17:06 And then we're actually going to help your team like develop a playbook that they can fill out inside of the CRM and, oh, you know, we're going to use, you know, sales rooms, you know, or something like that.

17:15 We're going to use a call recorder. You should get those transcripts. There's so many little things that you could do to improve.

17:20 The performance of that and so I don't think we push a lot in but I think that fundamentally if partners are focused on helping their customers like specifically drive revenue and that app on's part of that then I think that potentially were a fit for them.

17:32 Yeah, I'd almost disagree with you and say like, I think this is where the market's going. I mean, I hope so.

17:41 When you look at legacy HubSpot partners, what did they do? They did inbound, which means Marketing, blogs, content, websites, yada, yada, yada.

17:51 If you look at today of like, who's tearing the fastest? Who's coming in the ecosystem and making waves and like actually making an impact very quickly?

18:02 Like, I usually see, it's either an X Salesforce partner or a current Salesforce partner. That's one thing that I do see happening already.

18:09 The other one is like, they are a sales focused or like Revops, but with the sales bias focus agency that comes in and helps you build out your sales team and like get your sales team results.

18:23 Yeah. And guess what? It's easier to get budget from sales team because they have more freaking budget. It's like if I was an agency owner, I'd actually disagree with you and be like, you're insane if you're not looking into tools like this because it's not if you're gonna have to learn this side of 

18:38 the business. It's when and did I learn it quick enough to not get left behind? Like, that's my honest opinion.

18:45 I mean, I, I mean, I hope so. I mean, to me, the whole like revops thing, I feel like a lot of people, I'm not trying to be mean to anybody, but the first word of that is revenue.

18:55 That's my point. It's not paying you unless you could use revenue. How do you use revenue? No company that I've ever worked at.

19:04 Well, caveat, like HubSpot kind of had it. Like nobody really has a good outbound system. Like, I or now, like they need an expert to come in.

19:12 And most of them can't go get budget to hire, like, a team of four people internally, be like, hey, you're the clay person and list building person.

19:21 You're the integration and data person. You're the strategy and, like, hoppy person. Like, they can't freaking hire four people for something they don't know that's gonna work, but they can go spend 5, 10, 15 grand a month with an agency.

19:33 Maybe even 20 grand a month with an agency and go test outbound and see if it works for them. Yeah.

19:38 I mean, argue with you and be like, if you're not doing this now, like, You should probably go talk to Harris and figure out like, how do I get into this market?

19:46 How can I use your app to like help me do this and how can I get ahead of the curve?

19:50 Um, but then again, maybe I'm insane. So maybe, maybe, maybe, I don't know. I mean, I'm bullish on agencies in general.

19:57 I've seen like, they add a lot of value. Yes. Um, they add a lot of value. And I think that when they can do that in a way that's repeatable.

20:07 You know, and that's where I think like a lot of the super stuff comes in. Is it where it's like they can lower their marginal cost for delivery and they can standardize their process and they can say, Hey, here's our playbook.

20:15 Here's how we're going to deploy this. Then I think that business model gets even better, um, because it's not as expensive to deliver because you're not doing it from scratch every time.

20:25 Instead, you're saying, okay, 80% template, 20%. This is where we really do our magic. That's I think that I think that it's possible.

20:31 I think it's possible. I think it's a change in mindset. Um, I think from where HubSpot has Like, like, immunity has been.

20:40 Actually, this is maybe my hottest take of all. I actually think from a product perspective, HubSpot is ahead on this of an outbound.

20:49 Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think when you look at like the workspace, the prospecting workspace, I think they renamed it to something else, the sales workspace now or something like that.

20:56 But like, yeah. And then they have the all bound timeline now, you know, where it shows like up on an inbound event.

21:02 I actually think from a product perspective that HubSpot is ahead and they're Pushing the ball forward, um, in ways that I think that I think that the community will follow.

21:13 Um, I have a lot of faith in HubSpot from a product perspective. I'm a product person in the end of the day.

21:18 I think product wins a long run. And I think I have a lot of faith in the product team. Um, and I do, I do feel like they are, they're putting things in there that maybe people don't notice, but when you start seeing it come together, you're like, okay, so I was like pretty legit now actually.

21:35 Um, So, anyway, we'll see. Nah, I 100% agree. Cause like, I haven't been the ecosystem out long. It's been three and a half, four years.

21:45 But it sales hub, like when I first started selling at HubSpot through partners, like you couldn't really sell a sales hub.

21:51 This is where it was over 100 users. Now I talk to solutions engineers. I'm actually talking to the whole team later next week on this.

21:58 But like, they're selling like 300, 500 to 1000 seat deals now. And like it's not mind blowing anymore. Like three years ago, if you had a thousand seat sales hub deal, people would be like, have you tricked them into buying that?

22:13 And now it's like, oh, that's a big deal. Congrats, man. Yeah. Or lady or whoever you are. So I completely agree.

22:20 Like the speed at which they ship and like the way they prioritize road map, like I could see that. I just haven't used any other system in four years.

22:28 So totally. So. Uh, I know we're going along here, so what I want to wrap up on is like, if I'm a partner, or if I am like a user of HubSpot, and I just want to like figure out like, hey, I'm thinking about getting an outbound, or I think I want to get into consulting an outbound, like, do you want them

22:49 to reach out to you? How do they get a hold of you? Like, how can you help them if you do that?

22:54 I have no ideas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah. I mean, find me on LinkedIn. I post about this stuff all the time.

22:59 I mean, I'm always happy to chat with folks, for sure. I mean, I would say the thing that's happening with Apple now is like, it's, it's open.

23:04 You know, like, I mean, you can just go, like, make a clay account, start playing around there, check out Smartlead, or instantly, or EmailBison, check out these sequencing tools.

23:12 Um, give me a follow and LinkedIn. Um, I can also recommend some people to follow, like Eric Nowoslawski posts very good videos on YouTube, for example.

23:20 Um, you know, just kind of jump in and see. Thanks for turning in a better together. Hope you found some new ways to become better together with HubSpot app partners.

23:29 Catch you on the next one.